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    #1

    Acetal / POM / Delrin Bed Adhesion and Warping

    Hey everybody, we recently got a request to do some prints in Delrin, aka POM or Acetal, and I found Gizmo Dorks makes POM filament. However I have been having the hardest time trying to get it to stick to the heated bed of our Airwolf3D Axiom, which has a glass build plate. So far I have tried the following, all with extruder at 230C and bed at 140C:

    1) ABS Slurry on glass - First layer appeared to stick well, but subsequent layers caused the corners to begin warping which quickly got out of control.
    2) Purple Glue Stick on glass - Minor adhesion which quickly failed and caused the part to get stuck to the nozzle.
    3) Blue painter's tape - Again, minor adhesion which quickly failed
    4) Blue painter's tape with wood glue - Stuck pretty well at first but warping led the corners of the raft to pull up which gradually got worse and worse until it impacted the print.

    So does anyone else have experience with 3D printing Delrin? Any suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Joe, Access3Dservices
    Last edited by Access3Dservices; 03-31-2017, 02:27 PM.
    Tags: None
    #2
    After further research and trial and error, we have made significant progress in 3D printing Delrin on our Airwolf3D Axiom. After reading that some people had success printing onto cardboard, we decided to try that, however the cardboard alone was not adhesive enough so we added wood glue to the surface. The print then stuck to the glue-coated cardboard, but the heated bed and wet glue combined caused the cardboard to warp, ruining the print. So, we tried with kraft paper over the glass build plate, also coated with wood glue, and we got our first successful 3D print in Delrin!

    We still ended up with a significant amount of warping at the bottom of the part, but that may be solved by dropping the bed temperature after the first few layers as well as using a thicker raft. Only more trial and error will tell, but we're definitely making progress and will keep everyone updated as we learn more!

    Thanks,
    Joe, Access 3D Services

    Comment

      #3
      I'd suggest you try our new printing surface. No warping will occur. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ce-by-geckotek

      Comment

        #4
        Have you tried buildtak, i use this on my i3 clone with a heated bed and it holds REALLY well, never tried delrin though

        Comment

          #5
          If it sticks to cardboard it may well stick nicely to lightly sanded (600 wet & dry to break the surface) and degreased Tufnol,

          - Nick

          Comment

            #6
            Hi, I work at GeckoTek and the post above has been called to my attention. Unfortunately our surfaces DO NOT work with POM at this time. We're really sorry about the misleading info. We are working on a solution, though, so we'll let everyone know when our surface actually can be used with POM.

            Comment

              #7
              I have printed with it successfully. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm5JQoo71B4

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by crowveg
                I have printed with it successfully.
                Will this sheet also work with other material filaments? I plan on upgrading my printer to handle engineering grade materials and would like a build plate that will be reliable and last many prints. I will work with ABS, Nylons, and would be interested in POM.
                Last edited by djmossm42; 06-19-2019, 11:07 PM.

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                  #9
                  I've been printing POM for a couple of days now and initially struggled with the bed adhesion problem. Gluing paper to the bed with Elmer's Glue does a decent job, but the paper itself tends to delaminate. I never got a part to stick perfectly everywhere.

                  So I tried paper's sturdier cousin: fabric. Woven fabric can't delaminate and it works great! I started with cotton fabric, gluing it down with Elmer's Glue and printing on it. The POM adhered to the fabric beautifully. In fact, it was a challenge to lift the finished part off the bed.

                  I also tried polyester fabric. The remnant I used is thin and sheer, so the Elmer's Glue went through to the top. Nonetheless, the POM adhered perfectly to the fabric surface. I was able to spatula the part free without too much trouble.

                  I even tried Lycra fabric (a remnant of swimsuit material) and the POM grips it so strongly that they're never going to come apart. Bonded for life!

                  My guess is that any fabric will work, as long as it can tolerate the temperatures. Cotton certainly can, as can most polyesters and Lycra.
                  • 1 like

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Lou Bloomfield, I followed your advice after trying POM plate and I can confirm cotton is an excellent material for bed adhesion. I am fine tuning things to allow for an easier removal of the finished part. Great advice, thanks for sharing.

                    Is there any chance of sharing some of your print setting that give you the best results? Cheers.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Hi I have just joined this forum so I might be talking out of turn but I might be able to help I am a somewhat elderly but still professional physicist/chemist and I have recently been setting up a small FDM printing unit for my company. As part of this I required to set up a consistent and reliable profile for printing with nylon filament and in doing so tested most of the normal methods of obtaining build plate adhesion most of which either didn't work for us of to fiddly for commercial use. The bed material which we found works every time is the much mentioned Garolite know as Tufnol in UK common name SRBF (Synthetic Resin Bonded Fabric.) This works I am told because of the affinity of Nylon to the Cotton fabric in SRBF. The bond you have to paper and fabrics suggests this should work for you.

                      We clamp a 1mm thick Tufnol sheet over a flat 3mm (Tufnol) bed plat so that we can flex the thin sheet to aid removing the finished part.
                      • 1 like

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Hi Jason
                        I thought you might like to see the arrangement I described so here is a pic the part is a 42 by 42 by 24 cap for a small pressure vessel printed in Taulman nylon 230.
                        The print took about 2 hours. For this part is printed upside down and the specification for warp is tight so bed adhesion is critical.

                        Since we are still in our development stage here I thought I might have go with Acetal so I have ordered a roll of filament and will report how we get on.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #13
                          hi An update on my test with Acetal filaments: I ordered a roll of Frontierfila POM filament which arrived a couple of days ago and I have since had a chance to run a long series of tests with. Including all the suggestions above except cloth glued down and an acetal bed plate. Sad to say I have had no success . The best I have had is some adhesion at first but warping of the bed plate after the first or second layer. If any body has any ideas I would welcome them. This material appears rather like some of the ABS and Nylons I tested before finding consistent brands to use. Unfortunately at the moment all other brands of POM appear out of stock for delivery in UK. Jason could you let me know the brand you are using.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            I also tried polyester fabric. The remnant I used is thin and sheer, so the Elmer's Glue went through to the top. Nonetheless, the POM adhered perfectly to the fabric surface. I was able to spatula the part free without too much trouble. hellodear.in

                            Regards, teatv.ltd

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Hi thank you for that information, I have just got some cotton cloth (i could not get hold of any polyester today) and have glued it down to a build plate so I will try it tomorrow when the PVA glue has dried. In the mean time I cut a piece of 4mm Acetal (delrin, POM) sheet and have been trying that. I can now get Ist layer adhesion but the part warps and lifts within a few layers but when I try to remove the layers from the build plate and require a very great deal of effort to get them off the delrin. I suspect that my remaining problem is the very high mould contraction percentage of Acetal. I met this problem when I was setting up our system to use Nylon and found that some materials are much better than others.
                              Unfortunately at the moment alternative makes to the filament I am using are all out of stock in UK.

                              Comment

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