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Da Vinci Jr - Best way of securing print to print bed

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  • Da Vinci Jr - Best way of securing print to print bed

    Hi All,

    Im in the trial and error phase of using using my new Da Vinci Jr and was wondering what peoples suggestions on the best practice of securing your print to the print bed??

    I have tried the pad which comes with the machine and also a thick layer of prick stick, however half way through, the print still comes detached from the bed.

    I am looking into getting some double sided sticky tape to see if this works.

    Any suggestions will be gratefully received.

    Regards
    Rob

  • #2
    Hi Rob
    There are several reasons that your builds dont stick to the bed and then released when finished. Google it and you will find a lot of different ideas to get it to stick. But first what material are you printing? PLA, ABS or Nylon or something else? Every material has its own characteristics. Do you have a heated bed? What material is our bed made of? etc. Simplify3d has a great tutorial/getting started/finding error pages. https://www.simplify3d.com/support/p...ing-to-the-bed
    Best of luck
    Per

    Comment


    • #3
      Final net hair spray. Worked well for me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by perolalars View Post
        Hi Rob
        But first what material are you printing? PLA, ABS or Nylon or something else? Every material has its own characteristics. Do you have a heated bed? What material is our bed made of? etc.
        Per
        Hi Perolalars,

        Thanks for the reply. I am printing in PLA (XYZprinting own brand). It doesn't have a heated bed and was supplied with protective sheets which I place the prick stick glue on. I have now brought some double sided tape and will try a piece of this later on.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jsprenkle@gmail.com View Post
          Final net hair spray. Worked well for me.
          Thanks jsprenkle - Do you have to clean the bed after each use and what do you use to clean it?

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Rob
            It is the first time I have heard someone using double sided tape... I cant tell if it works but the common use with PLA is to use "blue tape" the one that painters use to mask. And sometimes use it with glue stick... I mostly print in ABS and then using kapton tape and ABS disolved in acetone to prime the kapton with. Google wich glue stick is best. I have never used glue stick (to many brands). Now I am starting to use the Zebra plate http://www.printinz.com/zebra-plates/... Cant yet tell how its working. But it supposed to work with PLA on cold beds.

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            • #7
              I put down Kapton tape that came with the printer. Then spray on a little hair spray (very little) once every 10 prints or so. I have a heated bed and set it to 60 degrees celsius.

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              • #8
                I've been using 3d Eez lately and it works quite well. Haven't had any problems as long as I let prints cool down before removing

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                • #9
                  By all means try all the different techniques you like, but sooner or later you will wake up to a couple of simple and inexpensive facts:

                  1. Print on glass. Any old glass 3-4 mm thick will do. I prefer to use mirror glass, mostly because I think it looks cool, but it also allows me to easily see up into the nozzle area. Glass provides you with the flattest surface possible.

                  2. The all-round best surface preparation for ease of use, minimum messing about, effective stickiness, and ease of removal is... hairspray. But not just any hairspray. What you use will depend on where you are. In the USA Aquanet is the preferred brand for most people who have tried just about everything else. In Australia Cedel Extra Firm (not just the Firm). A person from Sweden has recommended "Proffs Super Extra Strong Hairspray".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just bought one of these.
                    http://www.geckotek3d.com/
                    no more tape, glue, 3d eez, just this plate.
                    there is some kind of coating on it and it works great.
                    I print with abs and pla.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sdtag View Post
                      I just bought one of these.
                      http://www.geckotek3d.com/
                      no more tape, glue, 3d eez, just this plate.
                      there is some kind of coating on it and it works great.
                      I print with abs and pla.
                      Fair enough, but how do you know that it is, and will always remain, flat?

                      Glass is as flat as you can get off the shelf, and it doesn't distort.

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                      • #12
                        well you were right.
                        glass is flat as flat can be.
                        my gecko plate works pretty well. The thing I like about it most is I can remove it, flex it slightly, and the print pops off. No waiting for the bed to cool. I'm very impatient. The thing I like least about is I seem to have to keep adjusting my z offset every week or two.
                        I am trying one more thing before I submit to glass. build tak.
                        I did a quick test print then I printed out my 36 link cable chain. 7 hours later I woke up to this:
                        Click image for larger version

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                        It's a thing of beauty. Even though the plate had cooled they were still stuck pretty good. I got under a corner with a straight edge razor blade then popped them off with a putty knife. I got a few whiskers between parts. I was trying a new speed and temperature at the same time.
                        ABS @ 230 @ 24mm
                        Glass is my ace in the hole but so far so good with build tak

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AnonyMouse View Post
                          Fair enough, but how do you know that it is, and will always remain, flat?

                          Glass is as flat as you can get off the shelf, and it doesn't distort.
                          I know glass is flat as a marble slab but if the glass it totally flat and the bed isn't, wouldn't it have little air gaps here and there and develop hot or cold spots? I think this is my only concern about glass. That and using something I used to make a torch out of as a kid (hair spray) on a heated glass bed at 100c in my office. hmmmm... seems like I should have a fire extinguisher close by
                          I know the bed is probably cooled when I would spray it, but the potential is still there.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There are many different options for helping your prints to stick to your build platform. What works best for you will not necessarily work well for some one else, and vice versa.

                            Your options are:

                            Kapton tape, masking/builders tape, a branded build surface, PEI sheet, Hairspray, PVA, gluestick.

                            Some of these are used in combination.

                            Masking/builders tape is very good and cheap. For extra adhesion try glue stick / PVA. We haven't managed to get hairspray to work properly for us yet because we haven't found the right brand (where in the UK), although we haven't looked that hard.

                            The other thing to look at is using a brim.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            www.idig3dprinting.co.uk Your one stop, 3D printing shop

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                            • #15
                              yeah I suppose it's a matter of personal experience and a developed preference.
                              just like life haha
                              I tried tape and a glue stick at first, then went to 3d eeez. After a while I didn't care for the uneven bottom.
                              With that gecko plate the bottoms of my prints came out shiny and smooth, good enough for a presentation surface.
                              Not so much with tape or 3d eeez. kind of bumpy.
                              With this build tak sheet the bottoms are shiny and smooth again.
                              I use brims routinely when printing ABS which is most of the time. I might be scaling that back a little since the prints seem to stick so well to this sheet. almost too well. too tight is always better than too loose.
                              I won't say it.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by sdtag View Post
                                I know glass is flat as a marble slab but if the glass it totally flat and the bed isn't, wouldn't it have little air gaps here and there and develop hot or cold spots? I think this is my only concern about glass. That and using something I used to make a torch out of as a kid (hair spray) on a heated glass bed at 100c in my office. hmmmm... seems like I should have a fire extinguisher close by
                                I know the bed is probably cooled when I would spray it, but the potential is still there.
                                HOW TO USE GLASS ON THE PRINT BED:

                                Remove any covering that's already on the aluminium build plate, such as BuildTak. My Wanhao Duplicator i3 came with BuildTak affixed to the plate. I used it like that for quite a while, then I decided to take the advice of many experienced users and switched to glass. For a while I ran with the glass straight on top of the BuildTak. Eventually I removed the BuildTak. You don't sit the glass directly on the aluminium. You use Thermal Conductive Silicone Pads, often called Gino pads, and available from many places - you want the pad with the 0.5 mm thickness.

                                Most people just use a square in each corner, some add one in the middle. Still others, like in the picture below, go a bit overboard, probably to no advantage, but no harm done either.

                                Click image for larger version

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                                ADHESION TREATMENT:

                                These days hairspray is probably the most used adhesion treatment. It's only dangerous while in mist form and near an open flame. I follow a lot of people and a lot of 3D printing forums and I've never heard of a fire problem. But be aware that only certain hair sprays are effective as adhesion treatments.

                                However, since writing that hairspray recommendation above I have changed to a different treatment.

                                If you are in Australia you have ready access to Selley's Aquadhere PVA Wood Glue - it's popular, cheap and widely available. Squirt a little into a container (glass jar with a screw lid is best) and dilut with AT LEAST 5:1 of plain water. You can make the solution much weaker than that – I never measure it, I just make sure it runs like water when mixed, but you don't want it too strong or you'll be very firmly gluing your printed part to the glass. Don't make a lot, a little bit goes a loooong way. Shake the jar and paint the solution lightly on your glass plate. I keep a brush in a jar of water next to my container of PVA glue solution.

                                By now I think I've tried every adhesion treatment I've ever heard of, and I can't see any reason why I would ever shift off the PVA glue solution. It's by far the best and most reliable treatment I've come across.

                                NOTE: The above adhesion treatment recommendation is specific to PLA, though it will work fine with many other mediums as well.
                                Last edited by AnonyMouse; 04-26-2016, 07:08 AM.

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                                • #17
                                  I don't understand something here...
                                  the glass plate is held off of the print bed by 0.5mm using pads? How does that transfer heat through a 0.5mm air gap?
                                  in the photo in your post wouldn't there be hot and cold spots, where the pads are and aren't?
                                  I don't understand. I don't see how that can work. I assumed the glass would lay right on top of the bed to transfer heat through the glass.
                                  I could understand if you used the thermal transfer pad across the whole bottom of the glass, that makes sense to me. Transferring heat in a uniform, even way and the foam would make up for inconsistencies with the original bed.
                                  haha now I am more confused than ever. you obviously have a handle on this. Enlighten me please.

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                                  • #18
                                    Yup, I am confused too. I use that heat pads on various electronics and it works well,but it needs full contact. Personally I would go with thermal paste on the bed and some clips to hold the glass and bed together.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      To have a gap between bed and plate, makes no sense! You will loose heat!!
                                      I manage perfect results with NO HEATED BED when using PLA, so I can't the point of going to all this trouble.

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                                      • #20
                                        I am sticking (haha get it?) with my Build Tak sheet for now. It holds my ABS prints very well, almost too well.
                                        I was just trying to understand printing on glass because I am sure I will try it eventually.
                                        hey AppleKeith - you print on glass I think. How do you do it? How do you secure the glass to the bed?
                                        I think you mentioned that you mostly print in PLA so maybe it's not so critical?
                                        Do you have a 0.5mm air gap between your glass and bed?
                                        If you do then is your heated bed off? No heat for PLA right?

                                        OK Question of the hour: Has anyone here printed ABS on glass? 100c bed. pads? air gaps? vodoo?

                                        Comment


                                        • #21
                                          Plan to cut some glass tommorrow if I find my glass cutter. All I use is abs and nylon so heat is a must. I will put the glass directly on the heat bed and secure it with the black paper clip things like this __>
                                          https://www.google.ca/search?q=black...koCGYQ_AUIBigB

                                          If that does not work I will look into voodoo

                                          Comment


                                          • #22
                                            To the doubters:

                                            The universe doesn't care whether you understand its principles or not, it just goes right ahead and makes them work anyway. What I have described is the standard way of "attaching" glass to a heated print bed. It works just fine. And no, there are no hot and cold spots.

                                            UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU SECURE OR ATTACH THE GLASS TO THE ALUMINIUM PLATE!

                                            Glass and aluminium have different coefficients of expansion and must be able to expand and contract independently.

                                            The Gino pads are grippy but not adhesive. They hold the glass in place just fine while at the same time allowing the glass to expand/contract at its own rate and to be lifted off with ease.

                                            These aren't my inventions. These techniques are in use by thousands (at least) of 3D printer uses worldwide, and have been proven over many years of use by many people. It took me a couple of months to eventually peel off the BuildTak, and I did so with some trepidation, but I've still got the spare sitting in a cupboard and there's no way I'm going back to it.

                                            But if you're intent on reinventing the wheel feel free to go right ahead. We all had our doubts to start with. We all tried our various ways that we'd heard about or that some manufacturer had sold us on. In the end the vast majority come around to glass mounted on Gino pads. For one thing there is no substitute for glass to ensure uniform flatness of the surface. That's at the affordable end of 3D printing that I'm talking about – what the operators of expensive professional units do I have no idea, as I could not possibly justify that sort of equipment cost.

                                            Comment


                                            • #23
                                              So this is bad?
                                              https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j...58886905536872

                                              I see lots of this style. Could you post where you seen the gino pads?
                                              Last edited by Beerwiser; 03-24-2016, 06:25 AM.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                hey man I could give a rats @ss about the universe.
                                                I just want to know how you transfer heat across an air gap when the rest of the "universe" uses air as an insulator
                                                I wasn't really doubting you before but I am now. When someone starts shouting when being asked questions, that's usually not a good sign.
                                                I guess I'll re-invent my own wheel my way and I'll let you all know how it reacts in my universe, which obeys the laws of physics by the way
                                                I'm not trying to piss anyone off really, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this and learn new stuff
                                                Last edited by sdtag; 03-24-2016, 12:23 PM.

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  So this is bad?
                                                  https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j...58886905536872

                                                  I see lots of this style. Could you post where you seen the gino pads?



                                                  this makes sense to me - full contact

                                                  another question - any old glass that is about 3mm thick will work?
                                                  I thought I read something about some special kind of glass. no?

                                                  Comment

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